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   Author  Topic: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?  (Read 425 times)
val9000
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Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« on: Feb 21st, 2003, 9:15am »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
Since I'm new here, I need to get to know you all...
I've found a quick way to get somewhat of a gauge is to mention one word...
 
If I'm outta line, feel free to smack me.
 
I noticed there was no current discussion on Iraq here...
I'm curious what your thoughts are...
 
Should America be massing on their borders?
Is war inevitable?
Is it really all just about oil?
Is Iraq a threat?
Does anyone even care?
 
Curious to hear your opinions.
 
For the record, I support President Bush. I'll expound on that if there is interest in this topic.
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MzWings
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 9:32am »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
Thanks Val.  While I support Bush - I'm also frightened nearly to death that we may well have another war.  I feel that much of what this war is about is in all your points of discussion.  Other than that, I can't expound further.
 
Others here can though - I'm just not a politically aware kind of person.  
 
And there will be no "smackin' around" here...lol!  Your views and ideas are valuable!  Cool
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2003, 9:33am by MzWings » IP Logged
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val9000
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 12:13pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
No smackin? I'm almost disapointed!  Grin
 
In an order of fairness... I'll go ahead and express why I support forcibly removing Saddam of his weapons.
 
It's not about oil... it's not about a power-hungry US... it's not about regiem change (sorta)... it's not about attrocities Saddam has committed on his own people... it's not about the alledged connections between the Iraqi dictatorship and al-Quieda (or however it's spelled this week). It's about something much simpler... it's about obligations.
 
It starts with UN Security Council Resolution 1441. R1441 is the SEVENTEENTH resolution over 12 years levied by the UN Security Council concerning Iraq. The first one failed to convince Saddam to disarm. So did the second one. So did the third, fourth ect. What makes anyone think more time (since TWELVE YEARS apparently hasn't been enough) will finally make Saddam throw up his hands and do what the WORLD demanded of him?
 
R1441 clearly states that Iraq was to provide FULL and COMPLETE disclosure of it's weapons and associated programs by January 27th, 2003 (30 days from the date of R1441). As admitted by Chief Weapons Inspector Hans Blix himself, what Iraq submitted was neither full nor complete. Much about Iraq's chemical and biological stockpiles was absent. The world knew they had thousands of pounds of various nerve agents and biological baddies in 1991. They were documented by UN inspectors. What happened to them and where are they in Iraq's "disclosure?" Who knows... Iraq won't say. If there was nothing else, this alone constitutes breach of R1441.
 
R1441 also reiterated the original resolution (R661) reqirement that Iraq have no weapons with a range greater than 93 miles. R661 required Iraq to destroy any such weapons. During the oringinal process, Inspectors found many rockets and whatnots above the required range. They destroyed the engines in them but did not destroy the weapons themselves. Iraq rebuilt the engines and still have them. Hans Blix said so just the other day. Not only does this constitute breach of R1441, it also continues breach of R661.
 
Let us not forget that R1441 was signed by ALL members of the UN Security Council (France, Germany, Russia and China included). R1441 called for "serious consequences" if Iraq continued non-compliance. None of the signing countries who read that sentence had any illusions as to what "serious consequences" meant/means... forceable disarmament.
 
Do I want to see a war? Hell no. What civilized person wants to see men and women die?
 
Do I want to see Iraq live up to its OBLIGATIONS to the world? Hell yes. Unfortunately, looking at the facts as they are, the ONLY way Saddam will comply with any of the seventeen resolutions is to just take his toys away from him. It's the only action he and other radical dictators like him understand.  
 
[edited to insert an omitted word]
« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2003, 12:16pm by val9000 » IP Logged
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Bumper
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 21st, 2003, 11:16pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
Should America be massing on their borders?    Yes
 
Is war inevitable?     No, It's obivious that there are a lot of layers of diplomacy taking place during all this.
 
Is it really all just about oil?    No, IMO, it's about the possibility that if we do nothing, Ol' Saddam will one day in the future, be delivering a nuke to one of our major cities
 
Is Iraq a threat?    Yes, the potential (see above) is real.  
 
Does anyone even care?    Yes, I'm sure most of us "care" but the talking heads in the media have flogged the subject SO much that most of us are tired of hearing it!
 
Bottom line, I will support my President but my personal wish is that the UN community will come on board first, rather than us going on our own.
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luci
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #4 on: Mar 20th, 2003, 8:16am »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
Cool Cool Cool LOL  Cool Cool Cool
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #5 on: Mar 20th, 2003, 6:31pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove
No discussion!? Look at celebs shut up quite a bit if heated discussion there
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MzWings
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #6 on: Mar 20th, 2003, 8:23pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
David - personally, I'm more than a little "beat up" at all that's transpired in the last few hours.  I did start a thread "The Morning After" relating to what's just happened.   I'm not about another "heated" discussion - but that's just me right now.
 
At another site, another member there threaded an idea about how we could/might have averted a war.  The reason she posted this was because there were several threads  started which in effect, did nothing but bash and trash President Bush and his efforts and further, if anyone believed war was the only way to get Hussein, then we were no better than Hussein - we were war mongers.
 
That thread turned into yet another trash and bash.  I was flamed royally on my second post.  
 
One of the points of uh...."discussion" was the fact that no one seems to know or understand why this war has happened in the first place.  Doesn't seem to be a way to tell people - they need to do some research on their own.
 
John Q Public wants every single detail and he wants it now.  You know, not too long ago Colin Powell sat before the camers at a news conference and told "us" about all the online "chatter" which apparently gave a lot of info that something was about to happen - Hussein-wise.  I hardly understood what he was talking about but I was trying.  What I did get out of it scared me to death.  There's no way we can know all of everything - it's just too dangerous and can be leaked to our adversaries.  That's why Roosevelt (?) coined the "loose lips sink ships" back during WW2.  
 
All I can say at this point is what I've said before:  I stand behind President Bush and trust that his decision to bring down Hussein and help Iraq - for once and for all - is the correct one.  I pray for our men and women in the armed forces of the USA and others fighting alongside us in this effort.   I pray this will come to a swift end with as few casualties as possible.
 
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2003, 8:25pm by MzWings » IP Logged
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david
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #7 on: Mar 20th, 2003, 9:32pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove
It appears I have pissed you off I am truly sorry but it appears we agree on the subject I will leave it at that
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MzWings
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #8 on: Mar 20th, 2003, 9:40pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
on Mar 20th, 2003, 9:32pm, david wrote:
It appears I have pissed you off I am truly sorry but it appears we agree on the subject I will leave it at that

 
Pissed me off?  No!  Was that how you took my post.  That's not what I meant at all.  Maybe I should just stop posting anywhere.  I'm sorry David - that's not what I was saying at all.
 
Fact is I totally agree with you and you with me.  I just don't see where you thought I was pissed off at you.  Oh well........
« Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2003, 7:30am by MzWings » IP Logged
"Senility Prayer"...God grant me...
The senility to forget the people I never liked
The good fortune to run into the ones that I do
And the eyesight to tell the difference."
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david
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #9 on: Mar 21st, 2003, 10:33am »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove
Im sorry I guess I read something there that wasnt I am the one who shuld be sorry
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MzWings
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #10 on: Mar 21st, 2003, 10:52am »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify
You have nuttin' whatsoever to apologize David!  Everything's cool.... Tongue
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"Senility Prayer"...God grant me...
The senility to forget the people I never liked
The good fortune to run into the ones that I do
And the eyesight to tell the difference."
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david
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Re: Iraq... evil or wrongly accused?
« Reply #11 on: Mar 21st, 2003, 12:13pm »		 Quote Quote Modify Modify Remove Remove
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