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   Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated

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Topic: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated (Read 645 times)

Tsutroi
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Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« on: Sep 16^th, 2003, 8:32pm »

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The subject line is too short, this is specifically happening in Canada today. Most media and observers call it a historical moment and I quote: "I haven't seen the Canadian Parliament getting so much attention and tension in years before today."

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/09/16/motion_vote030916

"Alliance marriage motion defeated

Last Updated Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:38:07

OTTAWA - The Canadian Alliance's motion asking MPs to reaffirm the heterosexual definition of marriage was defeated by a vote of 137 to 132 Tuesday night.

The motion said "That, in the opinion of this House, it is necessary, in light of public debate around recent court decisions, to reaffirm that marriage is and should remain the union of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others, and that Parliament take all necessary steps within the jurisdiction of the Parliament of Canada to preserve this definition of marriage in Canada."
During a heated House debate prior to the vote, many politicians offered emotional testimony as to why they were either in favour or opposed to the motion."

What this means isn't that gays and lesbians all over Canada can marry immediately. For the time being, it is only legal in two provinces, Ontario (where Toronto is located) and British Columbia (where Vancouver is located). It however gives the Canadian Government, the moral ground to pursue its draft-bill to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide.

Its potential impact on the United States and elsewhere varies. In 38 States, adding Wisconsin most recently, have somekind of Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) in place that states each of their States do not have to recognize any marriage other than between a man and a woman performed in another jurisdiction. However, it may be used as a mirror to convince the American public that the sky doesn't fall with it and thus, increase the public support for the cause. And if even just one single U.S. State recognize it, likely in Massachussets (Reichen of the Amazing Race 4's native State) due to a pending court ruling there, then under the U.S. Constitution, if a law is good enough in one State, then it must be good enough in every single other States, thus bring down all the DOMA as unconstitutional. That's the short to mid-term impact. In the long-term, it will help in educating people more about what it really means seen how other people are doing it. People's views change but not overnight. So hopefully, combined with the increase exposure of gay and lesbian characters by Reality TV shows (O.K., Madonna and Britney Spears don't count, that one was way-way-way artificial), the attitude will change towards a more inclusive one.

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Red
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #1 on: Sep 17^th, 2003, 1:02am »

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If King Ralph has anything to say or do about it - it won't be happening in Alberta...there's a ton of controversy about it here

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Tsutroi
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #2 on: Sep 17^th, 2003, 1:06am »

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on Sep 17^th, 2003, 1:02am, Red wrote:

If King Ralph has anything to say or do about it - it won't be happening in Alberta...there's a ton of controversy about it here

Unfortunately for KK ("King Klein"), the choice isn't his, constitutionally speaking. By the same token, while some media may have painted Albertans as somekind bigot monsters, I have to say from experience that Albertan Government's arrogant attitude in the national scene is one thing but the people of Alberta is what I call the nicest of all the provinces that I have visited. And I have been to 8 out of 10 of them. Social values aside, statistically speaking, a study on how helpful people are about aiding others in need comapred 4 major Canadians cities and Edmonton clearly comes on top. I think it confirms my observation.

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Red
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #3 on: Sep 17^th, 2003, 8:18am »

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thanks for the kind thoughts about edmonton - personally I love the city (but then I'm a little biased!)...the whole gay marriage thing out here has really shown the true nature of a lot of people out here...and with the large amount of farmers, ranchers, and oil workers (who are traditionally...well...traditional) we are being shown to the nation (and perhaps the world) as the back woods country bumpkins of canada...it couldn't be further from the truth in my eyes...about king ralph...unfortunately he does have the influence (ok ok he just plain scares people into doing what he wants) that should it be formally passed and put into legislation acorss the country for good...that he will force the issue and find (or develop) some kind of loophole for forbid it here in Alberta. Sad

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Addams
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #4 on: Sep 17^th, 2003, 9:57am »

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only a 5 vote spread ensures that this legislation will not get passed before the next election. I know that Chretien was really hoping he could pass it before he retired.

I learned last night on the news that Canada is the only country in the world that will perform real marriages for same sex couples no matter what country they are from.

Many Americans are getting married right here in Toronto at City Hall across the street from my office.

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Red
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #5 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 1:02am »

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Personally, I am proud that my country is among the leaders in recognizing (or trying to) marriages among two people (no matter who they are) that love and care and respect each other...isn't that what love is about? These people are just going to be able to enjoy the same honor and priviledge that others get to when introduing their loved one as their husband or wife...and making that commitment is as strong a statement as two people can make to each other...just remember back when it was illegal for two people from different races to marry...we got past that - why not this?

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Addams
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #6 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 6:29am »

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Hey Red

I am proud too. At our daughter's school there is one girl who was born to a lesbian couple and a lawyer friend of mine is lesbian. She is and her partner have two lovely children. She called me recently to ask about schools and tolerance of different schools to her homosexuality.

A study was recently conducted however to show that there are different tolerance levels based on percentage of fundamentalist Christians or other fundamentalist religious people in a country. As fundamentalism increases, the tolerance for same sex marriages decreases.

In some countries homosexuality is still a crime.

I am proud too of Canada and the Canadian Chart of Rights and Freedoms.

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Red
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #7 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 8:34am »

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it's sad to see the opposition to the same sex marriages...my parents are both VERY opposed to it - and I just cant make them see another side - like many Albertans...way I see it - as long as they're committed and in love -how is it any different to any other couple - same sex or opposite sex? lol one of the headlines in the paper this morning in regards to this topic was "Alber-DUH" - too funny

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Tsutroi
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #8 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 8:58am »

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It's a generational gap mostly. Red's parents totally against it is not that surprising. We can't force people to think a certain way. For both sides of the coin, support or against, each think their position is a no-brainer. Now this is interesting. Usually, on most divisive issues, people's opinions aren't that far apart. But for this one in particular, the ones likely to oppose are senior, religious people. For them, homosexuality is still a sin or at least, wrong in some way. So how can you condone something 'wrong' in the first place, let alone allowing them to marry, a sacred institution to most of them? On the other hand, people supporting the idea tend to be young, educated and not very religious. For them, they grew up knowing homosexuality in a non-religious context. Sure just a decade ago, there were still a lot of moral pressure on the issue but over the last 10 years or so, the young people have come to accept this as a fact of life, therefore, for them allowing gays to marry is the only logical thing to do.

This will take time. At least with the defeat of that motion two days ago, we can enjoy some well appreciated silence now that the critics are morally obliged to shut up. I don't know any Canadian who hasn't had a earful of harsh-critical and at times rude comments either on TV, radio, papers or Internet during this whole summer despite most Canadians are mild or have no opinion on this issue, they just shrugged off.

I am curious though, Red, about your parents' reasons against this. I want to hear what arguments they got, if it's not too much to ask, can you summarize their main points here please? Alberta has unique opinions and we don't usually get to hear it on the other side of the country.

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Red
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #9 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 9:04am »

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they're reasons are mainly religious - they're disgusted by the thought so they say

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Tsutroi
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Hate Crime Protection Includes Sexual Orientation
« Reply #10 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 9:09am »

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Gays gain hate protection

By SUE BAILEY

OTTAWA (CP) - Openly gay MP Svend Robinson scored a major triumph for same-sex rights Wednesday as MPs passed his private member's bill to extend hate-crimes protection to gays and lesbians.

"It's been a good week for equality in Canada," an emotional Robinson said outside the Commons. "I feel proud to be a Canadian." MPs voted 141-110 to amend the hate propaganda section of the Criminal Code. The change would add homosexuals to a list of groups legally protected from incitement of hatred and genocide. Robinson has fought for the inclusion since 1981.

It was the second contentious vote in two days on gay rights. On Tuesday, MPs narrowly defeated a motion to maintain the traditional definition of marriage - an attempt by the Canadian Alliance to scuttle the government's plan to allow same-sex unions.

The Criminal Code bans incitement of hatred on the basis of colour, race, religion and ethnic origin, but not "sexual orientation."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2003/09/17/195424-cp.html

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This is a continuation of the motion defeated 2 days ago, yesterday, the proposed bill to extend the definition of Hate Crime in Canada has been extended to include gays and lesbians. The latter is often a target of hate crime.

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Tsutroi
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #11 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 9:12am »

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on Sep 18^th, 2003, 9:04am, Red wrote:

they're reasons are mainly religious - they're disgusted by the thought so they say

My guess as well. Religion, 9 out 10 reasons against it is religion connected. My hunch also tells me they probably don't have any openly gay friends or family either. If they have not known someone gay, they probably just make up what is using their own imagination.

If you have Amazing Race 4 on tape, you can ask them to watch Reichen and Chip, maybe edit out the parts they say they are gay first, then ask them what they think of these two guys. Then tell them afterwards, did you know they are gay and married? The reaction should be interesting.

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Lesbia
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #12 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 2:42pm »

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I'd like to immigrate to Canada. Any jobs for Librarians in Toronto?

ALL of you should be so proud right now of your country.

Oh Canada! Kiss

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Addams
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #13 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 3:44pm »

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there is an interesting article in today's internet news about a married gay couple who wanted to go to the USA to attend a human rights conference. They were asked by US immigration to complete separate applications and not permitted to use the family form.

The said they were married by the USA officials said that such marriage is not recognized in the United States and therefore they are not a family and so they had to fill out the individual forms.

The couple refused and they had to stay in Canada.

They obviously have done this on principle. It has now been raised with the Canadaian government to see if the US policy might be changed.

These are interesting times.

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rcs_mum
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Re: Reaffirmation of Hetero Only Marriage Defeated
« Reply #14 on: Sep 18^th, 2003, 5:10pm »

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I think that one has to know a gay or lesbian couple, or have attended a party or affair where there are many openly homosexual attendees in order to be able to give an informed opinion on this subject.
I feel that it is like saying that reality shows are really dumb, when you have never watched one. This was me before I had to find out what my son was going to be involved in by being on TAR4. I have changed my opinion completely! Which I did when I heard my son say that he was gay, and I heard the mixed emotions in his voice. I read everthing I could on the subject and made every effort to meet his friends and listen to what they were saying.
I think that those who are opposed to same-sex marriage are opposed to homosexuality in general. And until they change their feelings about this there will never be support for same-sex marriage.

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