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Topic: Communism (Read 1091 times)

MzWings
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Communism
« on: Apr 1^st, 2003, 3:39pm »

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Color me "in the dark". I thought Communism no longer existed. The following is quite long - and I usually drop off after a couple of paragraphs. Well, this grabbed me by the seat of the pants......I invite you to read.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Content/read.asp?ID=34

(This article helped me see the protestors of the last few weeks in a very different light)

« Last Edit: Apr 1^st, 2003, 4:10pm by MzWings »

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MzWings
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Re: Communism
« Reply #1 on: Apr 1^st, 2003, 9:50pm »

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Eight people have "looked" at this thread and no one has posted (with the exception of myself)....how disappointing no other person has addressed this subject.

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DanDC99
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Re: Communism
« Reply #2 on: Apr 1^st, 2003, 10:57pm »

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This is the first time I read it, I swear....

The Communism you see today is not the communism that Marx "invented". Thats the one that everyone pulls out and says "everyone has the same things" and "equal wealth for all". That may be all well and good, and some people may even want that. Thats theory, however.

In reality, communism is usually practiced as such... you have a small number of party members who radicalize the rest of the nation, group, whatever. Most people would call this Leninist/Communist. Thats the way Russia, China, and most every country that has tried communism has done it. Once the party takes over, it rules in a totalitarian fashion, with privledges for party members, gulags, etc. We have seen how well that works.

This second form seems to fit in well with the article you bring up. A small group of radicals who take over a movement.

IMHO, communism has never been, and never will be, workable in a large group of people. Its a failed ideology.

Many of its ideals live on under the name of Socalism, probably because of the stigma of the name. While not mutually exclusive, they can be quite similar. In other countries, communist parties still exist and can be quite popular (note china). So, yes... it still exists.

A side note... while McCarthy was an ignorant fool, communists DID spy on the govt, and were largely involved in it at that time. The witch hunt was madness, but just because someone is paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get them...

Sorry if this is incoherent... its late and I am about to go to bed. I just didn't want Wings to yell at me again.

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MzWings
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Re: Communism
« Reply #3 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 8:07am »

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Okay Dan - you redeemed yourself and I won't be yelling at you today....maybe. :laff:

Thanks for addressing this subject - I'm still not sure whether to be afraid of it or just wary of it.

Dan.... :tongue2:

I just had to do this smilie...uh...just 'cause it's there?

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Addams
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Re: Communism
« Reply #4 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 10:05am »

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good one MzWings. The article had me thinking and it is true that cults and other groups can be started this way. I am however reluctant to attach the label communism to it. But that's just me.

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DanDC99
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Re: Communism
« Reply #5 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 10:22am »

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Addams,

I think it is pretty clear that the CP of America is behind a lot of these things... either in their own name, or thru ANSWER.

In any case.. I would agree that what they are doing isn't communism in the strictest sense. But, they are trying to use leninist means to create instability. Not making any judgements as to whether it is right or wrong... but that seems to be the tactics used.

Can I ask why you are reluctant to use the label? Is it the stigma attached to it, or that you don't think the communist groups are behind it? Or am I totally off base and way too tired again? Wink

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Addams
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Re: Communism
« Reply #6 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 10:29am »

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The word Communist can be used in so many ways and I still have not forgotten the mccarthyism days and many Canadians including one of our Prime ministers as well as good scientists were labelled communists by the United STates. It's a strong word and I try to use it with care.

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DanDC99
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Re: Communism
« Reply #7 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 10:44am »

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I think the McCarthy days are over. I studied communism, and in russia for a time. I have never had much of a stigma attached to me or it.

I think if you let it be a bad word, than it will be one.

If someone is a communist, let them defend their ideals and judge them on their merits. In my own mind, I think it is a dying ideology as well as a failed one.

I certainly don't think it is a dirty word.

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Re: Communism
« Reply #8 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 10:46am »

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I agree with you that it is not a dirty word but some people use it as a label - not everyone but some. It takes a while to figure all of that out.

Given the fear and discrimination I am seeing right now in Toronto over SARS and its asian roots. I am of the belief that labels such as this can arise again. I try to be careful about "labels" and look at the fact situation more specifically. It's just me.

Great to have you posting here Dan by the way!

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DanDC99
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Re: Communism
« Reply #9 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 10:53am »

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I agree with you, that some people use it as a smear. I don't think it is the case here, as the people are members of the party and don't seem to be hiding it. I don't think there is anything morally wrong with joining the communist party, although I would argue to the death that the ideas are wrong. In an ideal world, it might even work...

Anyway.. I dont think the stigma can be removed unless we actually discuss why communism doesnt work with those who believe it could. Just my humble opinion..

Its great to be posting here too...

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MzWings
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Re: Communism
« Reply #10 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 11:44am »

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It's GREAT to have Dan here - for sure. Gee, it looks like we might actually get a little discussion going on with ideas going back and forth. And without the personal slamming.... Shocked

I could just :faint:

We could use Jac, Bump, Tink, David, Rhune and Reset and more here too. Just like days of yore.....

:rofl:

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DanDC99
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Re: Communism
« Reply #11 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 1:24pm »

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I think respectful discussion is vital to any board (or democracy)... Name calling is just uncalled for and an attempt to get the other side to shut up when you can't out argue them...

I was thinking on this... Maybe the reason I don't see the communists as the "slur" that many do is because I studied along side them. I also wasn't alive during the McCarthy era.

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Rhune
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Re: Communism
« Reply #12 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 1:40pm »

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I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about the modern communist party. I've always thought of "true communism" as a nice idea that frankly just doesn't work. What's been communism in practice has possibly worked in some small isolated communities, but in something as large as a country it gets corrupted very quickly and becomes so easily abusable by those in charge.

As far as there being a communist party, I don't think they have a shot in hell of winning a pubic office of any imporantance, but it takes all sides and different opinions to find the middle ground. One of the unfortunate things that has happened over years and years time in the US is that the more important the political office becomes, the less choices we really have. Sad

Yes, there were many people other than Gore and Bush who actually ran for president, but none of them were allowed to be included in the debates, etc.

At any rate, I'm rambling and I don't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into a political debate of other sorts. My main point was everyone gets a voice, even the communist party, and that's good cause it's what helps us find the middle ground.

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Addams
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Re: Communism
« Reply #13 on: Apr 2^nd, 2003, 2:24pm »

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I agree Rhune - there seem to be many more parties in Canada that have a strong voice. We now have 4 or 5 parties who are included in the televised debates. The Bloc Quebecois is regional. Oh Mzwings will see it all including the communist party when we have our next elections in about a year from now.

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BlankWillWin
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Re: Communism
« Reply #14 on: Apr 3^rd, 2003, 5:48am »

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There are few people more intolerant than a reformed drunk, a reformed smoker, or a reformed communist, as the author of this article claims to be. Wink

There is a wide coalition of activist groups involved in the anti-war protests, some quite mainstream and others more out on the fringe, like the American Communist Party. Would the ACP like to co-opt everyone in the movement into their camp? Sure, that's what political parties do. Will they be able to? No. Are anti-war protestors Communists (and therefore UNAMERICAN)? No, but this is clearly what the author wants us to believe with his manipulative web-page. Is using Civil-Disobediance to protest a mistaken American policy unamerican? Ask Henry David Thourou and Martin Luther King.

Eric.

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