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Topic: Theism vs. Atheism (Read 1208 times)

BigKen250
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Theism vs. Atheism
« on: May 4^th, 2004, 7:00am »

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OK, before I start this let me preface with this disclaimer: the author of this thread has no intent to harm anyone's psyche, insult anyone's beliefs and is not engaged in reverse proselytism.....just trying to have an intelligent discussion......

As we all know an A-Theist is anti Theism, or anti God. They DON'T believe there is one. A Theist is pro Theism, or for God. They DO believe there is one (or many).

I find it very interesting that a person can be a "Christian" and then discover themselves to be an Atheist. That is a huge transfer of belief systems!!! I would buy that one can move from Christianism to Theism, which I will define here as a belief in God but not in man's attempts to define Him, but to go from a fundementalist view (Christianity) to a total absolution of any faith is odd.

I too have "come out" of the fundemental Christian faith. I have studied at length and found it to be a business. A very profitable business. I believe in God. I love Him and I think He loves me. That's good enough for me. I cherish and admire all his creation.....I think there is ample scientific evidence of creation over evolution to warrant an intellectual belief in God. However, I think a thorough study of theology will point out a historical rendering of "saviors" throughout history and cultures.

So how about you? Have you thought about it? Studied it? Or just adopted your parents belief system or accepted what you heard one man say from a pulpit??

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luci
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #1 on: May 4^th, 2004, 9:00am »

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Not wanting to reply to your thread at all! But, this is not a Religion/Theology thread, it is a movie thread. I for one longstanding member of this forum I'm very worn out fRom seeing your controversial posts all over this forum.

It appears that all you want to do is start a controversy!
Your attempt to rile folks is just plain rude! Don't reply to me please, I will not answer or post my thoughts, just as I've not done now!
THIS IS A MOVIE THREAD! Grin

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"A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and
can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words."

Boradamer
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #2 on: May 4^th, 2004, 9:04am »

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Just read Luci's post. Sorry, can we move this to another thread then? I did not mean to spur this on in this thread. I don't feel he is trying to rile people though. Just open honest discussion as we are all adults here.

:twocents:

Interesting enough the title alone shows what many feel. Most take it personally what one person believes over another. The "vs." is a good example. Not that I think you are condemning other beliefs, just my observation about those who follow a god and those who do not.

My history:

I was raised in the Methodist church. Granted my parents were not overly devout but I was still raised to worship God. Over the years my parents just stopped going and my personal beliefs at the time were more agnostic. I felt there was a higher entitiy but the infighting between all the various factions of his faith made it hard for me to feel any of them were right. Each claimed the were 'the way' to salvation and if each claimed this then who was right.

Being raised in St. Louis we had a strong Catholic and Baptist community. As you can guess both factions were very head strong about faith and those without one of those two callings were the out crowd.

Years later after my wife and I were married she began to attend a local Christian church. They were very big into reading and fully understanding the bible. This was big to me. I felt too many religions pulled a verse out here and there to suit their own needs and if I wanted to find my faith it would come from better understanding his word. I joined the church, was baptised and fully felt I had found my connection with God.

One day I was talking to someone and something he said was the turning point for me. He was talking one day with a friend about sin and his friend said that most people take sin too lightly. If you truly believe in Heaven and Hell and by sinning you will go to Hell why would anyone sin? Most cling to the fact the even though they sin they will be saved and just keep on sinning.

I thought long and hard about that. I looked at my faith, I looked deep within myself and realized I really don't believe in Heaven or Hell. From that point on my faith disolved.

Oddly enough, there is enough hard historical evidence that Jesus existed that I believe he was around when the bible said he was. I just lost faith in who others claimed he was.

Bottom line. All my life I have felt each person is responsible for their own actions in life. (Not condemning here) Many people use religion to make them feel better about themselves or to give meaning to their life. I have and always will try to be the best person I can be to all I meet while I walk this planet. I don't believe in the afterlife and being unburdened by that I feel a strong conviction to live a good life while I live as my legacy will be passed down through the memories of those I meet.

My children are being raised in the Methodist church (where my wife now attends) and I support her in all she does. I personally feel there are many good things studying the bible can impart. You would be hard pressed to find a better way to teach people to be more loving to each other. If my children decide later in life they want to follow another religion, more power to them. To me religion is a personal thing. If you do not follow your heart then you are not being true to yourself.

passes out from the sheer effort of talking this much and being serious for so long

« Last Edit: May 4^th, 2004, 9:06am by Boradamer »

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david
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #3 on: May 4^th, 2004, 9:08am »

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Thread needs to be move motivation of poster is in question but this is MOVIE thread!

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kelby
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #4 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:07am »

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Very thoughtful post Borad...lead me to think about some things my family and I experienced while getting to know my brothers fiance' s family.I would like to share my story and welcome any thoughts you might have.

My brothers and I have zero religious training save for a few Sunday school classes when we were very young children and the occasional Easter,Christmas masses that my father brought us along to when he took his elderly parents. The only prayer in our home was upon somes death or when we had company offer ,ask to say a prayer at meal times.We are a good family, we have been taught right from wrong, to be good people , caring and involved members of our community, volunteering was something we regularily did as a family, we dont lie ,cheat or steal.My parents didnt so much push us to be sucessful like some of our friends parents did ie: perfect grades, good paying jobs, status, so on., but they taught us to be good, caring, giving,and honest and that we should 'use' our lives the best we could to do good for this world.

My brother who is a wonderful man was engaged to a girl from a very devout catholic family . her family loved him and welcomed him up until the point where they realized that we were a non religious bunch. One of their own children who attended mass with the family regularily and whatever else was involved with their faith has been charged and convicted of many sorted crimes and has done a few stints in jail. The father has had numerous affairs (which is never talked about), and apparently beat the boys in that family regularily while they were growing up. Still having said all that we were looked down on, and her family thought my brother was not good enough for their daughter. They tried to make the relationship work but in the end it was my brother that broke off the engagement as he didnt feel comfortable having and raising kids in that enviroment, and with a grandfather with that clear lack of character.

Now I am certainly not one to let one bad apple spoil the whole barrel but in certainly is dissolusioning.

Since then my parents have both passed , and I have struggled with the whole concept of religion. I truly wish I was a believer as I would have liked to have a faith to help me through those difficult times.28 years old I felt essentially orphaned and I desperatly wanted to know if indeed there was a heaven and if my parents were there ,and if they were okay. I have since sought out information on the many faiths, and have attended a few services on my own. I met who is now one of my best friends a very devout Catholic who was a youth minister , and a wonderful woman as well. we have had many late night discussions where she answered all my silly questions , and I have learned alot and have a new appreciation for religion allthough I am still very much a beginner and am not quite sure how far I am going to go with the whole thing.

I am not sure if this is the kinda thing you were wanting to discuss Ken, but I guess I needed to babble . I have no issue with this post and think it is good to have a forum to discuss these things in a intelligent and respectful manner.I know you did not intend to offend ...you are more than clear about that at the beginning of your post...thanks for the opportunity to spill...comments are more than welcomed!

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azure
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #5 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:13am »

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personally I find this post to be quite enlightening and not at all offensive

if it should get to that point, perhaps it can be moved to the political forum?

I think everyone should be allowed to express their opinions on every topic and everyone should be respectful of this. Course, hope it doesn't turn too "preachy" Roll Eyes

« Last Edit: May 4^th, 2004, 11:14am by azure »

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HELLO EVERYBODY!!

lakelady
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #6 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:27am »

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Politics and religion in the same forum? :yikes:

Just kidding, azure. Grin

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BigKen250
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #7 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:28am »

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Hmmmm...interesting turn there Azure!! So, I think you are saying that you always believed in God, or at least accepted that concept and now you are searching how to express that belief and deal with your losses.....right? I can certainly understand.....I think we all hope that our loved ones are "in a better place"....I believe they are....with God. However, don't we also hope that evil people (rapists, murderers,etc) are "getting what they deserve" and are NOT "in a better place" with God? We commonly refer to that as hell. I think that you can come to a point of acceptance of a belief system that works for you emotionally, intellectually and scientifically....and no one else should judge whether that is right, or wrong, for you.

Borad....my man!!!....Wow, talk about bareing your soul....thanks man.....however, you said that your faith disolved when you discovered that you didn't believe in heaven or hell. So have you totally abdicated a universal creator and adopted a creation theory for human existance and higher order thought?

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BigKen250
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #8 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:28am »

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Ooops....darn....I meant, thanks Azure and interesting turn Kelby!!! Darn fumbly fingers anyway!!!! Roll Eyes

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azure
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #9 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:38am »

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I was thinking, wow he got all that from my little post?

and :laff:

lakelady we can change the name of the political section to "DUCK!" and add this thread to it

Wink

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kelby
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #10 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:50am »

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I think that what I am saying is that I still dont really know what I believe...now that makes no sense...

I was raised without religion, but during hard times sought it out-which actually I find rather hypocritical , but I have seen it time and time again where typically non religious people turn to god looking for answers, help whatever when life takes a difficult turn. That is not the way I want to find 'my' god.

I dont for a minute want to believe that if there is a heavan , the only way I am going to get there is if I go to church on Sundays. I and certainly take offence when I am singled out as being a bad person, or unworthy because I dont practice religion in an organized fashion when there are many full on practicing Christians so on that may very well go to church on Sundays but do dispicable things I wouldnt dream of doing any other day of the week.

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kelby
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #11 on: May 4^th, 2004, 11:58am »

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Somehow half of my post dissapeared.....will finish up explaining

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kelby
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #12 on: May 4^th, 2004, 12:27pm »

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I think that I would feel lucky to have the absolute faith in their god that so many have, it just seems really hard at times to wrap my head around. baby steps.....

PS...I have so much to say on the topic, questions to ask but I understand that some peoples relationship with god is sacred ,and private so at the risk of offending or being misunderstood Ill leave it right here.

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BigKen250
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #13 on: May 4^th, 2004, 12:35pm »

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Wow Kelby....I sincerely hope that this thread remains open minded enough that you might be able to ask your questions and get thoughtful, caring responses.....if not answers.....

I would be happy to share my thoughts on any question you have.....IM me if you don't feel comfortable in the open forum....but there may be others reading who have the same questions and are too shy to ask.....

Lips Sealed

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luci
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Re: Theism vs. Atheism
« Reply #14 on: May 4^th, 2004, 12:38pm »

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This is to Kelby and anyone else who might gain something from my words.

I am a Believer.
I am a Christian.
I am a Sinner.

My Mom started taking me to Sunday School when I was 5 yrs old. I was baptised at the age of 8, and still belong to the same church. Yes, it is a First Baptist Church.

My husband and I now go as often as we can and if we are home.
Going to church on Sunday will not get a person to heaven. I go to church to recharge my faith and keep me being as good as I can be!

We don't always believe what this particular faith teaches but we believe!

Jesus said,"Strive to walk in my image." Or something similar, knowing that we are mere mortals and cannot walk the straight and narrow always. So we strive......................and I personally have made many detours on the road to being a perfect Christian, but I do try.

I took my children to church and they are christians also. Now follow the same path and take their children to church also.

Several years ago, my cousin's son died in a horrible
motorcycle accident. Standing at the graveside service, my cousin made the statement that she wished he had the same foundation of being a christian as their older children.

It is a proven fact that when Dad's don't go to church with their
children, the son's will do the same as them when they are grown. This is fact!

Foundation is the key word here. Have a foundation and give your children a foundation. They may not always live by it but eventually may come back to their faith.

At this time we are reading and studying the book by Rich Warren, THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE. I also purchased the journal to go along with it as it has places to write.

Our minister said Sunday in his sermon about joining a church and posed it in the form of a question. "If you're a football player do you belong to a team?" Also used other illustrations but I'll stop here.

A church by any name will not get us to heaven but it puts us with people who believe and also gives us a base to keep believing and in times of gladness and sadness comfort.

Even when we have doubts, don't you want to be on the believing side? The alternative isn't good!
I only hope in some way I've helped you, Kelby, and just
maybe someone else also.

Your life has a purpose................................

« Last Edit: May 4^th, 2004, 12:50pm by luci »

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